Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

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Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:54 am

The Language in this Bill would also ban any Birddog competitions using live Birds and the persons sponsoring the Bill will not stop their anti-hunting agenda once they have succeeded in picking off the coyote hunters. A near identical Bill has been introduced in two other states as well and will spread like cancer.

https://www.sportsmensalliance.org/news ... tj2tEGaCmo
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby flitecontrol » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:56 am

That's disturbing, but such a bill wouldn't stand a chance, and introducing one would be political suicide, here in Louisiana. I would think it would be the same in other states with a large, and vocal, hunting population. PETA's practice of groups walking through public woods and making noise to disrupt deer hunting worked in some areas. In the South, after a few confrontations and rounds fired in their general direction, they learned it wasn't a viable tool here. As a result, we now have laws that prohibit intentionally disrupting lawful hunting activities.
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:30 am

flitecontrol wrote:That's disturbing, but such a bill wouldn't stand a chance, and introducing one would be political suicide, here in Louisiana. I would think it would be the same in other states with a large, and vocal, hunting population. PETA's practice of groups walking through public woods and making noise to disrupt deer hunting worked in some areas. In the South, after a few confrontations and rounds fired in their general direction, they learned it wasn't a viable tool here. As a result, we now have laws that prohibit intentionally disrupting lawful hunting activities.


There was a time when the same was true in CA, OR, WA, CO. Just further back in time is all. I have Friends who are 5th generation Ranchers/Sportsmen in Montana who complain they are outvoted by new comers from the left coast now living in Bozeman.

Things change and most of it is not for the better is my observation. We cannot even agree to enforce our current laws or boarders, whether a living, heart beating, days from birth baby can live or die, whether our constitution's plain words mean what they say ...

Assuming this bill cannot be passed AND spread would be a grave mistake. FC, I accept you are correct about your State's current political climate, but the same was once true in States where it is no longer true. The politics in Texas next door are not what they once were...

Our Strength and Best Chance is in our collective numbers and a common voice. Oregon's fight is our fight.
Last edited by AverageGuy on Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby mtbirder » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:44 am

I see a "Christie" - owner or moderator, I assume - has a post at the top of the general discussion topics, "take your politics to reddit".
I find it interesting that there also exists a heading "Legislation and Laws". Good luck - on an internet forum populated by sportsmen/women passionate about this stuff - keeping politics out of these topics.
After all, legislation is passed by politicians who have an agenda. These agenda will affect somebody somehow. The very topic of this thread is a glaring example. Politicians actions affecting us.
As an aside, I live in Montana's Gallatin County - Boze(Angeles)man being the county seat. Have for over 30 years. Politically, Gallatin County (with the exception of right in town Bozeman) is very right leaning conservative.
Anybody claiming different, I would argue, has their own agenda.........
Just some thoughts from a bird dog guy surfing the cyberspace...........
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:55 am

mtbirder, I am not selling my politics to anyone.

My Point was/is to highlight how major issues have a chasm of difference in all corners of our country.

The first bans against hunting mountain lions and then bears with dogs started in CA and spread north up the coast then east. This will do the same.

Yea, my Montana Friends have an agenda; to hand down their working ranch to their kids and grandkids, and preserve their outdoor Sportsman way of life as well.

The Bill is what it is and it's language is a threat to our Bird dogs as are the people pushing the Bill. Bringing awareness to it would seem the obvious intent of this section of the Forum.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby mtbirder » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:37 pm

AverageGuy,
I am glad you posted this. I tend to think one of the best purposes of forums is to INFORM. I think maybe you misunderstood my comments, or I am a poor messenger.
I was only attempting to point out that keeping legislation, laws, and politics apart might be a tough thing to do.
I hope your MT friends keep their ranches in business and in the family. We already have enough wealthy, out-of-state, non-traditional, absentee land owners.
A friend of mine likes to say - "wish those Texans would move back to Colorado" :D
On the MT politics - we have a Dem Governor, a GOP controlled legislature, a GOP US congressman, and one DEM & one GOP senator. Pretty mixed. Some folks don't want it that way...................
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby flitecontrol » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:47 pm

I'm not in favor of the proposed legislation in Oregon. But the reality is we live in a democracy, and attitudes and opinions can change. There may come a time when the majority of voters choose to eliminate some of the freedoms that folks like us have enjoyed all our lives. It would be a very sad day if this ever happened, and I hope it never does. The folks in south Louisiana and some nearby states had a long history of cock fighting. They maintained that chicken fighting was a long standing tradition and should be allowed. But most Louisianaians didn't agree and voted to outlaw cock fighting a few years back.

Most non-hunters aren't opposed to hunting, and those that enjoy the sport need to do everything they can to keep it that way. BTW, conservatives aren't the only ones that hunt, and to suggest non-conservaties are anti-hunting is not only incorrect, it tends to alienate non-conservative hunters. Hunters, regardless of their political leanings, need to stand united in defense of our sport.
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby mtbirder » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:15 pm

Good post flitecontrol.
As hunters, no matter what political leanings we may have, we're faced with threats from both "sides".
This OR bill is just one. Hope the OR folks show up for this one.
We are all acutely aware of the real/perceived threats to the 2'nd amendment from the left. It makes all the headlines.
The right poses threats to our American public lands heritage. From page 21 of the 2016 GOP Platform:

"The federal government owns or controls over
640 million acres of land in the United States, most of
which is in the West. These are public lands, and the
public should have access to them for appropriate
activities like hunting, fishing, and recreational
shooting. Federal ownership or management of land
also places an economic burden on counties and
local communities in terms of lost revenue to pay
for things such as schools, police, and emergency
services. It is absurd to think that all that acreage
must remain under the absentee ownership or
management of official Washington. Congress shall
immediately pass universal legislation providing for
a timely and orderly mechanism requiring the federal
government to convey certain federally controlled
public lands to states. We call upon all national
and state leaders and representatives to exert their
utmost power and influence to urge the transfer of
those lands, identified in the review process, to all
willing states for the benefit of the states and the
nation as a whole.
"

Those of us who hunt mainly Public Lands are confronted with this issue.
We outdoorsmen/women face a lotta' negative stuff from all directions.
Good luck to us all..........
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby orhunter » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:29 pm

Being a life long Oregon resident and witness to all the water under the bridge, this is no surprise. It’s a sign of the times where special interest groups attempt to force their holier than thou standards through legislation. They can’t just go with the flow. It’s all about power and social acceptance among their peers with no concern for how it actually affects others outside their peer group who have a vested interest in the issues.

It’s early in the current issue and impossible to see where this is going. I think it will die before it goes anywhere. The problem is, there will be something else to take its place and the process will start over again.... and again.

It has taken ten years to get somewhere in dealing with The Marine Mammal Protection Act, a hidious piece of legislation, so we can deal with the seal and sealion problem. Folks who’s lives are not affected by the animals are controling those who’s lives and money are greatly affected in addition to the negative environmental impact. Their only connection to sealions and seals is emotional, as a part of acceptance into their peer group. Anything outside that goes without notice.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:34 pm

flitecontrol wrote:Most non-hunters aren't opposed to hunting, and those that enjoy the sport need to do everything they can to keep it that way. BTW, conservatives aren't the only ones that hunt, and to suggest non-conservaties are anti-hunting is not only incorrect, it tends to alienate non-conservative hunters. Hunters, regardless of their political leanings, need to stand united in defense of our sport.


None of my post states "non-conservaties (SIC) are anti-hunting". It accurately relayed that anti-hunting legislation has originated in liberal majority States and spread from there. That is a fact not an opinion.

To your last sentence, I agree.

On the specific subject of Coyote Contests there can certainly be some major PR problems. Low fur prices (which are not likely to recover) result in a continuing need to control predators numbers but no incentive to skin and sell the hides. Photographs of piles of dead coyotes are not helpful. Every thing we do does not need to be filmed and posted on the internet. We could go a long ways to helping our own cause if we would be more cognizant and considerate of how things like this affect the opinions non-hunters who get a vote.

In western states where weather events create some cyclical boom and bust in antelope and mule deer numbers, the pressure of an unchecked coyote population on fawns can really suppress their ability to recover, at least quickly. Controlling predators has it's place.

Bottom line is the folks who promote these Bills are very deliberate in their divide and conquer approach to picking off one segment of our Sport and moving to the next one. Not an accident the language in this Bill would end competitive birddog events, but the public promotion of ending the coyote contests is the way they sell it.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:40 pm

Please do not mistake this as an Oregon only issue. And Please take a look at this. Note the President is from the Humane Society and note the list of supporting organizations including numerous States in their titles. This is just a perceived low hanging fruit of the anti-hunting movement, just as banning the use of dogs to hunt Mt. Lions and Bears was/is.

http://www.projectcoyote.org/endkillingcontests/
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby flitecontrol » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:53 pm

AG, I've never been on an organized coyote hunt, but have shot a few over the years as the opportunity or need arose, and will continue to do so. But I do have some ethical issues with shooting animals (and fishing) for cash, which is what it appears these coyote contests are. If a group of coyote hunters wants to get together and see how many each can legally bag, I would have no objection so long as the public doesn't see the bloody results. The picture of a trailer load of dead coyotes on the anti-hunting site you linked to is going to negatively influence those who might otherwise have been undecided or neutral about hunting in general and coyote contests in particular. All they see is a bunch of dog-like corpses that haven't been treated with respect. It brought to mind pictures from the WWII Nazi concentration camps. Non-hunters who view such carnage will associate it with all hunting. Just as we no longer see hunters strapping their deer to the hoods of their vehicles and parading down public roads, the organizers of these events should be savvy enough to never provide a photo opportunity that captures such scenes. Unfortunately, there are fools aplenty that shoot themselves (and all hunters!) in the foot and provide fodder to the antis in the process. I hate being associated, rightly or wrongly, with such folks.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby Stretch » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:40 pm

I just got done doing a competition hunt for coyotes and have another coming up in couple weeks. One being a kill contest and another just a field trial type deal. I have hounds and I love listening and watching them run just like watching my WPG work birds. To do away with coyote hunting competitions would have a very ill affect on livestock and all kinds of hunting in my part of the country. That and fox hounds are one of the oldest past times. People need to quit being snowflakes and realize we like hunting and fishing just as much as they like doing there underwater basket weaving. Also hunters in general do more for habitat and game than any of them have for the most part.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:23 pm

Coyotes are highly intelligent survivors and anyone who legally wins a coyote contest is a heck of a hunter in my book. But using some common sense in how the carcasses are handled is highly advisable in todays World where Everyone gets a vote, and more vs less Bills such as this will be our Future.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby flitecontrol » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:33 pm

Stretch wrote:I just got done doing a competition hunt for coyotes and have another coming up in couple weeks. One being a kill contest and another just a field trial type deal. I have hounds and I love listening and watching them run just like watching my WPG work birds. To do away with coyote hunting competitions would have a very ill affect on livestock and all kinds of hunting in my part of the country. That and fox hounds are one of the oldest past times. People need to quit being snowflakes and realize we like hunting and fishing just as much as they like doing there underwater basket weaving. Also hunters in general do more for habitat and game than any of them have for the most part.


Are cash prizes involved? If yes, the argument could be made that the cash is the reason for the killing, not predator control or something else. Are the animals/pelts utilized in any way? It would be positive PR for these events if some or parts of the animals were used rather than being discarded. Many non-hunters support hunting if the animal is eaten or utilized in some way. Have there been any studies about what impact, if any, these competitions have on livestock and wildlife? Both have co-existed for a long time. The environment is somewhat like a balloon; stick a finger in it, and it expands somewhere else, often with a ripple effect. For example, when wolves were removed from the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, elk numbers grew so much that they overbrowsed their habitat, stressing the entire population. When wolves were reintroduced, elk numbers fell, but overall herd condition improved as their habitat, no longer being so heavily grazed, rebounded. When raccoons were removed from endangered sea turtle nesting beaches to reduce nest depredation, the ghost crab population expanded. Raccoons find a limited number of nests. Ghost crabs, which live in tunnels in the sand and are also eaten by raccoons, destroyed as many or more nests than the raccoons had. Turtle eggs are a seasonal food for raccoons. but they eat ghost crabs year 'round.
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