UT test training

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UT test training

Postby Stretch » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:43 am

Barrett just passed the NA test and I would like to start training for the UT test right away. The thing is I have never done any training at all and my dog hasn’t even had a full season of hunting put on him. Another thing is I really don’t want to use an e-collar. So I guess what I’m saying is should I start training hard now or wait. He just turned 8 months and is very cooperative and biddable. So if I do start training hard where do I start because like I said this is my first v-dog and I don’t know what all the test entails.
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Re: UT test training

Postby orhunter » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:12 am

I don't think it's too soon but you should get a good picture of what is required and what you think your pup can handle. Don't want to put pressure on the dog it can't handle. Also want to avoid boredom, too much of anything is bad for the dog. Small steps, big results.
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Re: UT test training

Postby ForestDump » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:44 am

I would wait and just work on basic obedience and handling in the field. I don’t pressure pups or like to put them on pen raised birds so early. They have the whole rest of their lives to be grown dogs no sense rushing it.
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Re: UT test training

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:45 am

I think there are elements of the UT you can be building a foundation for now and other areas that I would delay until after your pup's first hunting season. Maturity matters vs the calendar age, but my pups would have all been ready to go through FF (better term might be trained retrieve) at 8 months assuming I did my job correctly. Given it is early summer, it would be easy for you to complete that before this coming hunting season, so I think you could consider working on that. I am betting that new Michael Ellis DVD with a hybrid method of PR and ecollar overlay might be a good fit. I am seeing more and more folks get through alot of upper level training with minimal or no use of an ecollar. I use them both. I used the Perfect Retrieve DVD on my latest pup and by passed the ear pinch and it was a great fit for him.

With some good Hold, sit and deliver retrieve training through this summer you can also easily work on the drag and Duck Search using PR and keeping it fun. Nothing wrong with working on some steadiness relative to marked water retrieves at the age of your pup through this summer assuming your pup has a high drive for the retrieving in water, (which I think it does based on what you have posted along the way.) Make and keep it fun. But a good bold puppy can easily be made to sit through some gunfire waiting to bust loose and get a retrieve when sent. Building the foundation for it with PR methods is very doable at this point. Introducing your pup to retrieving through decoys is very doable this summer.

The part I would delay until after this next hunting season is training for Steady to WSF on upland birds. I hunt my pups through their first season, only shooting birds they point and let me flush (or those that flush as I am approaching to flush assuming the pup did not move. Have to be realistic with wild pheasants). I let my pups chase when the birds fly and take the shots that are safe and hold fire when they are not. I also let the pup search out a lot with little interference from me as I want to develop a bold bird finder for the long run vs focusing on a hunt test. It has made some of my pups more difficult to steady up having let them chase birds when they fly, but it also made them bold happy bird finders which matters most for me. With the right approach you can still steady your pup starting in Spring 2019. Meanwhile you can teach a well understood WHOA command, (both voice and whistle is what I do) and get your pup to the point where you can stop it on a run in the field. That will put you in a great place to begin your steady to WSF training in Spring of 2019. I would not use the WHOA command around birds. At all, until after the first hunting season.

The Perfect Start and Perfect Finish DVDs have been really helpful materials for me in the steady to WSF, WHOA, COME, ECOLLAR introductions and use, areas.
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Re: UT test training

Postby Stretch » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:55 pm

Sounds like more than anything I need to get some material on training so I have an idea of what I’m doing. The blind search deal has me a little bit confused. But we will figure it out. I would really like to skip a bunch of the FF stuff and just do some hold training. As of right now my biggest worry is shorting the dog because I don’t have know how to teach or the resources.
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Re: UT test training

Postby Coveyrise64 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:06 am

Stretch wrote:......I would like to start training for the UT test right away.


There is a pretty good training outline of what steps you should take to prepare for the UT in the June NAVHDA VHD magazine.

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Re: UT test training

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:44 pm

Anything Michael Ellis speaks about is first class. He understands retriever training, agility, rally, protection, etc. - all of it, and is an extraordinary person. I just spent two weeks learning from him and it was an eye-opener.

As far as the UT goes I think it takes a certain level of maturity on the dog's part and it's not a good idea to go into the test with your dog band-aided together. I've always pushed mine to run at a year or so age but I think it's better at age 2 or 3 or more. In the meantime do as others have said, get your obedience down pat perfectly and let the dog learn about wild birds, hunting, etc. Birds at the UT are not like wild birds and allow your dog to get way too close and will teach your dog really bad habits.

It's a journey so relax and enjoy the trip.
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Re: UT test training

Postby ryanr » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:21 am

Coveyrise64 wrote:
Stretch wrote:......I would like to start training for the UT test right away.


There is a pretty good training outline of what steps you should take to prepare for the UT in the June NAVHDA VHD magazine.

cr


Just got my June edition the other day, Mark's an excellent judge and of course handler, excited to read the article today during my lunch break.
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Re: UT test training

Postby Densa44 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:31 pm

Not too soon at all. My son ran his dog in NA and UT on the same weekend. The dog got a 112 in NA and a pz 2 in UT. My advice is to work on the water, I'll say it again, water, water, and more water. The other upland tasks you can teach her in a short time, as others have said.
Duck hunt as much as you can. Depending on where you live there may be places to pick up lots of cripples a day or two after the season opens, this IMO is great experience for a young dog.
Don't handle your dog on a duck search until after the UT test. Practice the duck drag and the long wait when there is lots of gun fire.

If there are no ducks where you live visit me in Alberta, we have just about run out of duck hunters.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
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Re: UT test training

Postby Stretch » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:02 pm

Densa44 wrote:Not too soon at all. My son ran his dog in NA and UT on the same weekend. The dog got a 112 in NA and a pz 2 in UT. My advice is to work on the water, I'll say it again, water, water, and more water. The other upland tasks you can teach her in a short time, as others have said.
Duck hunt as much as you can. Depending on where you live there may be places to pick up lots of cripples a day or two after the season opens, this IMO is great experience for a young dog.
Don't handle your dog on a duck search until after the UT test. Practice the duck drag and the long wait when there is lots of gun fire.

If there are no ducks where you live visit me in Alberta, we have just about run out of duck hunters.


I’ve been wanting to go to Canada waterfowl hunting really bad for the last two years. Maybe you could point me in the right direction of where to go and where not to go. We have ducks here but it’s nothing like what I seen in North Dakota and the locals there say Canada is even better.

I’ve still have not got my June edition magazine and it’s starting to piss me off.
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Re: UT test training

Postby Densa44 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:07 am

It this should have a new post, I apologize. Duck hunting in western Canada. Sad to say the duck hunters are all dying off, but there are lots of ducks, Saskatchewan is the best. The locals only (usually) shoot them in fields and they gets lots of action. If the birds aren't shot on the roost (the water) they will stay in the area and you can shoot the same spot for a couple of days.

Out here there are only 2 kinds of ducks, mallards, pintails and other ducks! They don't shoot the "other" ducks if they can help it.

Come and visit before Mr. Trump makes it illegal.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: UT test training

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:37 am

Outfitters are taking over Canada to some extent. I have a buddy who has hunted SA annually for over 20 years. Leaves a boat and decoys up there. The Habitat Flats guys moved into his area and leased up all the land where he has hunted for free permission for a couple of decades. And they have 6 or 7 guys driving each night scouting for waterfowl. TV Crews ...

Earth is getting smaller but Canada is still a jewel for the moment. Changing for the worst however. Animal Rights folks dictating season closures of large predators ...

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Re: UT test training

Postby Densa44 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:29 pm

With ducks you are only allowed 3 days limit in possession, and now that is 24 ducks with a maximum limit on Pintails of 6 I think. Believe it or not in 40 + years I've never shot a Pintail. too far west I guess. Come to Alberta, all of our hunters want either Pheasants, now #1 and in second place geese. The outfitters, thanks to US money are taking that over too, but there are no duck hunters in East Central Alberta.

BTW it is a great place to train a dog. The way I hunt ducks is to put the dogs in the back of the pickup, put my younger American friend in the passenger seat and drive the country roads near my house. When the gravel roads were built 70 years ago, material was taken from beside the right of way and used to raise the road surface, the holes that are left are called "borrow pits" and they are now filled with bulrushes and water.

As I drive by, if the shooter spots ducks, nearly always, I stop out of sight of the birds and let him out. He walks back and takes a few shots at the jumping ducks. When the shooting stops, I cut the dogs loose, hunter goes back into truck and dead ducks in the back. The hunters and the dogs love it. Never see another soul.

You'll note that all the retrieves are "duck searches" so lots of practice.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: UT test training

Postby Stretch » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:30 pm

Densa44 wrote:With ducks you are only allowed 3 days limit in possession, and now that is 24 ducks with a maximum limit on Pintails of 6 I think. Believe it or not in 40 + years I've never shot a Pintail. too far west I guess. Come to Alberta, all of our hunters want either Pheasants, now #1 and in second place geese. The outfitters, thanks to US money are taking that over too, but there are no duck hunters in East Central Alberta.

BTW it is a great place to train a dog. The way I hunt ducks is to put the dogs in the back of the pickup, put my younger American friend in the passenger seat and drive the country roads near my house. When the gravel roads were built 70 years ago, material was taken from beside the right of way and used to raise the road surface, the holes that are left are called "borrow pits" and they are now filled with bulrushes and water.

As I drive by, if the shooter spots ducks, nearly always, I stop out of sight of the birds and let him out. He walks back and takes a few shots at the jumping ducks. When the shooting stops, I cut the dogs loose, hunter goes back into truck and dead ducks in the back. The hunters and the dogs love it. Never see another soul.

You'll note that all the retrieves are "duck searches" so lots of practice.


Do you need another American friend? Lol
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Re: UT test training

Postby Densa44 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:40 pm

I'll never have too many friends. The fellow I described lives near LAX and he has to drive miles, line up, only take one box of shells, paddle for a couple of hours to get to the blind, and he gets mostly divers. He is a very nice fellow. I took him to the pheasant festival banquet when he was here, he wore shorts and flip flops, the people still ask if he is coming this this year.

I live in a dog trainer's/hunter's paradise. I know that. It would be nice to have more duck hunters, the goose hunters are not usually dog men.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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