Kiger2 wrote:Ryan,
You said "If your dog doesn't understand something, don't use the e-collar and hope it just "decides to do something different."
Then you said "instead meet it in the water and drive it back out physically and with low level stim. " Same paragraph.
I rest my case.
Once again, No Kiger I did not say what you are implying I said. I told him that instead of stimming the dog when it's coming back to you (because at that point it's likely coming back because it's become confused or unsure and his coming back to you, it's safe place) However the dog knows the command when it's sent for the search, it's proven that SO now you don't let the dog get back on land, you meet it in the water and resend it, driving it back out and with continuous low stim as you command it and drive it back out. So you're REINFORCING a known command with low level stim, as you did in training. I suggested it as a more effective means than just stimming the dog when it's swimming back to you and hoping it figures it out.
And to Bruce's point about e-collar overuse in duck search, with how we train we rarely use the e collar (except for a retrieve correction on an e-fetched dog) BUT one area where I've seen us need to use it (again, rarely) is a dog that gives up and comes back after a short search. But that's on a dog that knows duck search, not a young dog still figuring it out. We'll meet the dog at the water and drive it out. You can choose to use stim or not, I could care less and I assume people have the common sense to know what they need in accordance with their dog's training.
Again, its rare we use the e collar at all during duck search. Maybe we're lucky but most of the dogs can't wait to tear up a pond looking for ducks and go right back out and do it again. They've learned what's expected but it's been made fun for them. But I've seen it necessary on maybe 2 or 3 dogs at most that were giving up and just coming back despite knowing better. The dogs weren't fried either (why on earth do so many people assume using the e collar means you're cranking it up?) They were met at the water and driven back out, some with accompanying low level stim with the command, some command only as you drove them out. Now when you do this you better make sure the dog gets into a duck (I do not understand the idea that not finding a duck each time is a good thing.)
Now with this dog it almost sounds like maybe the dog has given its best effort and it's search is what it is. Tough call not seeing it but it's got 20 searches under it's belt.